{"id":5691,"date":"2016-07-22T12:40:37","date_gmt":"2016-07-22T12:40:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/?p=5691"},"modified":"2026-02-18T18:07:12","modified_gmt":"2026-02-18T18:07:12","slug":"territory-of-entrepreneurship","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/territory-of-entrepreneurship\/","title":{"rendered":"Territory of Entrepreneurship"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5694\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5694\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4669.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5694\" title=\"DSC_4669\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4669-300x148.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"148\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5694\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"> The Panel Discussion <\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Manufacturing and Operations are \u00a0management processes \u00a0that \u00a0are quite entwined. Classroom sessions of the same can be heavy but in hands of someone as adept as \u00a0Prof.(Dr.)Murli Mohan, Sr.Associate Dean, it turns into a breeze. The professor was chairing the panel discussion \u00a0of the day.Peppering the discussion with magnanimous dose of \u00a0humour the professor not only made it interesting but also drove home the message to the students \u00a0who seemed to be quick studies.<\/p>\n<p>The panel had \u00a0senior professionals from the industry, with decades of experience who had now turned into successful entrepreneurs. With glimpses of their career they painted a \u00a0granular picture of the corporate world of 1960&#8217;s. \u00a0It was engaging as the experts \u00a0recounted their personal and work life journey which had its share of challenges and \u00a0how their never-say-die spirit helped them tide over.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5695\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5695\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675.jpg\"><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5695\" title=\"DSC_4675\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4675-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5695\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">  Batch 2016-18<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Pearls of wisdom from \u00a0industry experts like Mr B Velan, Managing Director, of Scorpio Engineering \u00a0Ltd filled \u00a0the air. Velan advised \u00a0the aspiring entrepreneurs to spend around ten years in the relevant space \u00a0before they take the plunge into the world of entrepreneurship. Speaking of failures, he said that, an entrepreneur should not be averse to \u00a0risks and should have the mettle to ride over the fluctuations entrepreneurship offers. Failures and fluctuations come with the territory. And there comes the real test of the steel in you.<\/p>\n<p>Dr. Subramanyam, outlined the role of electronics in manufacturing of high-end-defence equipment . Subramanyam has to his credit \u00a0SLN Technologies which is into Electronics Systems Design and Manufacturing company working in Aerospace, Defence, and Nuclear Industry segment. In a startling revelation he shared that very soon electronics import will outsize oil import. And we would face the challenges of going overboard in the same in future. As of entrepreneurship it comes with its share of challenges but the rewards are worth the pain.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5697\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5697\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441.jpg\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5697\" title=\"DSC_4744\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_47441-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5697\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Prof(Dr) Murli Mohan - Welingkar, Mr. Philip Samuel, Managing Director-  Indfrag Ltd, Mr. B. Velan, MD- Scorpio Engineering,Prof (Dr) Githa Heggde-Welingkar, Mr. Subramanyam- founder, SLN Technologies, Mr VK Dikshit, Director of NetAspire Solutions Ltd and Major Vinitha Thakur - Faculty, Welingkar<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Another panellist Mr Viswanath Krishna Dikshit, Director of NetAspire Solutions Pvt Ltd, while speaking on the subject of \u2018Failure\u2019 said he never thought of failure ; as life to him was a everlasting \u00a0learning process. He advised the students to pen down their dreams along with related thoughts on paper and and revisit them daily.<\/p>\n<p>Mr. Philip Samuel, Managing Director, of Indfrag Ltd \u00a0mentioned that failures are frequent visitors to entrepreneurs. They should believe their instincts. But warned them against holding others responsible for their failures.\u00a0Answering Prof Mohan on would they prefer a \u2018Cushy corporate Life\u2019 over the roller coaster of entrepreneurship , the the panel unanimously said they would still go for entrepreneurship. The panellists expressed that they enjoyed the role of an entrepreneur because of the \u00a0inherent challenges and they did \u00a0not like comfort zone and complacency of a paid job. They welcome challenges and troubles. It brought in its wake the \u00a0opportunities to grow, innovate, create wealth and make a difference.<\/p>\n<p>When quizzed about challenges they encountered Mr Dikshit, mentioned that getting the needed finance was \u00a0a perpetual problem. Revisiting his early days he said \u00a0the banks&#8217; response and support was dismal.However, it seems today times have changed for better with banks respecting entrepreneurs and willing to fund start ups and easy to avail loans for CAPEX.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5699\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5699\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5699\" title=\"DSC_4650\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4650-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5699\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"> Velan(l) and Dikshit (r) shake hands as Dr Heggde looks on <\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>The final phase had the audience \u00a0sharing their curiosity and questions \u00a0on how do the experts on dais keep themselves going even in the face of countless challenges.\u00a0Dikshit, told the audience he believes in collective management philosophy and everyone in the company is aware of decisions. \u00a0Subramanyam felt a leader should have sacrificial attitude and if there is crisis he should step forward to solve the problem.Samuel mentioned his was a flat organisation. He loved working with young, responsible people .Citing an example of a young MBA from a leading b school \u00a0of the city he shared the person in role of purchase manager has the latitude to carry out transactions worth \u00a0Rs.100 crore \u00a0and it was his \u00a0faith and guts that made him assign the role to her.\u00a0He also mentioned that he loved interacting with employees at all levels in the organisation&#8217;s pyramid \u00a0as such interactions give you a peek into their lives and as the head of the organisation it was very much required. He further told the audience how his company supports \u00a0employees seeking home-loans.<\/p>\n<p>In the \u00a0Q&amp;A session a student asked about the \u00a0roles of women \u00a0in the manufacturing sector .The panel said, opportunities are growing in the sector with so much emphasis given to gender equality. However, a decade ago, women in manufacturing sector were far and few. However, with the integration of IT , the opportunities for women \u00a0have grown manifold.\u00a0\u00a0Samuel said, his company follows \u00a0women friendly and gender -equality norms. \u00a0It had the policy to ensure them proper transportation and safety. Dikshit also shared that at his company women played \u00a0an important role. The design team at his firm had a lot of women.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5700\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5700\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5700\" title=\"DSC_4895\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4895-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5700\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Mr Kamal Bali, MD Volvo and and Board Member, Volvo Group of Companies speaking to the studnets<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>The charisma associated with the speaker for the next \u00a0session made it a much awaited . And it was worth the wait. At the podium was Mr Kamal Bali, Managing Director and Board Member, Volvo Group of Companies India. the upbeat mood of the audience found a good pairing in the mojo of the speaker.<\/p>\n<p>Talking of the digital disruption together with the dynamic &#8216;VUCA&#8217; world we are living in, Bali brought up the significance of the emerging geo- political shifts. Living in times of a shrinking world, a change in one corner is bound to create ripple all around the globe. Simple fluctuations in the prices of commodity like oil have a global bearing. In earlier days, a marketer would study the historical data but with changing times and global integration, it is important to understand futuristic trends.<\/p>\n<p>Listing the five mega trends\/concerns that would \u00a0transform the world he mentioned Digital Disruption as being the first one. Businesses today are extensively using the \u00a0medium in their marketing campaigns. Most of their stakeholders and target audience have a digital presence and this demands due diligence in the handling of the same. Any misjudgement can cost dear.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5701\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5701\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4829.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5701\" title=\"DSC_4829\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4829-300x245.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"245\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5701\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Bali (c) with Prof Chandra (l) and Dr Heggde (r)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>He further spoke of the emerging world of e-commerce and how government of India is leveraging on Adhar Card to fight corruption in the system.\u00a0He divined huge \u00a0social tensions in the society because of the widening economic disparity.Also he \u00a0spotlighted the shifting power centres of the \u00a0globe and the evolving power equations among the East and the West. \u00a0It may open a world of increased economic opportunities for the Asian countries.The fourth concern he spotlighted was the over-consumptive pattern of the humans \u00a0and their \u00a0changing relationship with the Planet Earth. We are over consuming our resources at an alarming rate. A study by WWF says we use 1.4 times resource of our planet. Hence, it is important to use renewable source of energy to sustain climate change.<\/p>\n<p>Rapid urbanisation posed another challenge, said Bali. There was a growing trend to migrate \u00a0to urban centres in pursuits of growth and better economic prospects. The phenomenon should be carefully monitored to keep the unwanted repercussions at bay.\u00a0He told the audience, China is the one of the largest world economy where the growth rate is 5% and size of economy is 10 trillion. Whereas India is growing at the rate of 7% and size of economy is 2 trillion. Our country population is 1.25 billion and for India needs to \u00a0grow at the rate of 9% each year to pull its people out of poverty. He mentioned that the &#8216;demographic dividend&#8217; is \u00a0growing. By the year 2022 &#8211; 1 out 5 people would be a young person from India. A reality check on what is the talent and skill quotient of those entering the workforce need to be maintained.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5702\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5702\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5702\" title=\"DSC_4955\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4955-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5702\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"> Bali (l) and Dr Heggde (r) with  the stars in making- the students. <\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>While speaking on \u2018 Brands\u2019 he said the country is seeing spate of launches in Smartphone category. So, what is driving the customer to purchase a particular brand? \u00a0Quality is an important trait and gives the much sought distinction to the product. There is a marked change in mindset of customers with the growing inclination towards quality than price. Brands today \u00a0have shorter spans. It has drastically reduced from 80 to 18.<\/p>\n<p>It was important for Indian companies in automotive sector to move up in value chain and become result oriented.While sharing his views on environment and growth, he said we could still strike a balance between growth and environment. He told the audience of Euro six engines that will not harm the environment and said future lay in electric and solar cars. \u00a0 \u00a0He shared how \u2018Safety\u2019 was one of the core values at his company backing it with the fact that the 3.5 seat belt was the invention of Volvo though not patented.<\/p>\n<p>Bali in his salad days was national level Badminton player. While playing a tournament he lost the final match because of his \u2018casual attitude\u2019 towards his opponent simply because he was running with the idea that the young opponent was 4 levels below him \u2013 hence took him lightly. The loss left him feeling low for days but wiser. Never undermine other people and keep improving yourself.Guard against a cynical and frivolous mind set.<\/p>\n<p>Speaking on why some \u00a0businesses succeed while others fail, he said there should be an effective sync between strategy and execution. And finally once you have arrived -never stop the virtuous circle, \u00a0encourage success and mentor freshers.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5703\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5703\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-5703\" title=\"DSC_4858\" src=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858-1024x683.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858-1536x1024.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/07\/DSC_4858-2048x1365.jpg 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5703\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dr Anil Rao-Dean &amp; Director, Welingkar,Bangalore (l) with Mr Bali (c) and Dr Heggde (r)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Manufacturing and Operations are \u00a0management processes \u00a0that \u00a0are quite entwined. Classroom sessions of the same can be heavy but in hands of someone as adept as \u00a0Prof.(Dr.)Murli Mohan, Sr.Associate Dean, it turns into a breeze. The professor was chairing the panel discussion \u00a0of the day.Peppering the discussion with magnanimous dose of \u00a0humour the professor [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":5703,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[1401,1,1440,97],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5691","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-all-post","category-campus-corner","category-entrepreneurships","category-events-happenings"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Territory of Entrepreneurship - Welingkar Blog: Beyond the Walls<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.welingkar.org\/blogs\/territory-of-entrepreneurship\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Territory of Entrepreneurship - Welingkar Blog: Beyond the Walls\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"&nbsp; Manufacturing and Operations are \u00a0management processes \u00a0that \u00a0are quite entwined. 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